Creationists have a lovely way of shooting themselves in the foot by taking the worst possible example to try and justify their case. This recent comment (found here) exemplifies this beautifully
“To know something and to assume to know something is different. Example, one lives alone and he/she goes home and just saw that dinner table is served with all kinds of fruits and food. Now I am thinking and conclude that somebody prepared all the food and served it. But Steve and Dawkins ASSUME that all the food came up there by chance and Luck. This world with their related seasons which act like a servant is a very big food stale where we eat all the food according to the our body needs. Vitamin C or D etc. Who created human beings created the soil where all food fruits and veggies can grow and who created the soil, created the sunlight and rain that all cooperate with each other to serve us.”
Here is the real problem (other than the obvious misunderstanding of evolution and the absurd analogy): Our ancestors once made vitamin C for themselves. They did not need to ingest it. We lack a functional gene for an enzyme called L-gulonolactone oxidase. This forms the last step in the production of ascorbate (vitamin C) from glucose. We do however contain a pseudogene for this enzyme, which does not function because of acquired mutations. This presents a problem for the creationist.
The problem is that design requires being made to fulfil a purpose. Creationism boils down to an organism must be designed because it fulfils a purpose and all its parts are created to fit together to perform that purpose (that and a lack of imagination). So, here we have something that has no purpose and its only reasonable explanation is that it was present in a functional form in our ancestors (it probably became inactive about 40 million years ago).
Reductionism is a common theme in biology. If we don’t need a gene, there is no selective advantage in keeping it. There may even be a slight energetic advantage in losing it. Genes are lost through random mutations, and there are many examples of this occurring. It is not just the L-gulonolactone oxidase gene that we have lost; mice and humans have about 200 “genes” for a family of olfactory (scent) genes called the V1r family. Mice have about 160 functional ones. Humans have only 5! Whales and dolphins have no functional members. The non functional ones have become fossilised in our genome; they are slowly decaying. Gene loss is seen at an extreme level in parasites, as their hosts provide much of what they need for them. The record holder is Mycobacterium leprae; it has about 1600 functional genes and approximately 1100 decaying fossil genes.
It is not just genes that are lost, but structural features too. Examples include the toes of horses that can be seen gradually disappearing in successive rock layers, our appendix and the limbs of proto-snakes (Figure 1).
“To know something and to assume to know something is different. Example, one lives alone and he/she goes home and just saw that dinner table is served with all kinds of fruits and food. Now I am thinking and conclude that somebody prepared all the food and served it. But Steve and Dawkins ASSUME that all the food came up there by chance and Luck. This world with their related seasons which act like a servant is a very big food stale where we eat all the food according to the our body needs. Vitamin C or D etc. Who created human beings created the soil where all food fruits and veggies can grow and who created the soil, created the sunlight and rain that all cooperate with each other to serve us.”
Here is the real problem (other than the obvious misunderstanding of evolution and the absurd analogy): Our ancestors once made vitamin C for themselves. They did not need to ingest it. We lack a functional gene for an enzyme called L-gulonolactone oxidase. This forms the last step in the production of ascorbate (vitamin C) from glucose. We do however contain a pseudogene for this enzyme, which does not function because of acquired mutations. This presents a problem for the creationist.
The problem is that design requires being made to fulfil a purpose. Creationism boils down to an organism must be designed because it fulfils a purpose and all its parts are created to fit together to perform that purpose (that and a lack of imagination). So, here we have something that has no purpose and its only reasonable explanation is that it was present in a functional form in our ancestors (it probably became inactive about 40 million years ago).
Reductionism is a common theme in biology. If we don’t need a gene, there is no selective advantage in keeping it. There may even be a slight energetic advantage in losing it. Genes are lost through random mutations, and there are many examples of this occurring. It is not just the L-gulonolactone oxidase gene that we have lost; mice and humans have about 200 “genes” for a family of olfactory (scent) genes called the V1r family. Mice have about 160 functional ones. Humans have only 5! Whales and dolphins have no functional members. The non functional ones have become fossilised in our genome; they are slowly decaying. Gene loss is seen at an extreme level in parasites, as their hosts provide much of what they need for them. The record holder is Mycobacterium leprae; it has about 1600 functional genes and approximately 1100 decaying fossil genes.
It is not just genes that are lost, but structural features too. Examples include the toes of horses that can be seen gradually disappearing in successive rock layers, our appendix and the limbs of proto-snakes (Figure 1).
One final point on vitamin C: inerrant biblical literalists believe that all animals were intended to eat plants and fruit (genesis 1:29-30). However, these foods contain vitamin C, so our ancestors would not need genes to synthesise it.
As one can see below, the teeth of Carcharocles megalodon are beautifully designed to peel grapes (sarcasm in case creationists are reading).
9 comments:
a miracle... a new post has just appeared (just by hitting the refresh button)
Great post
The non functional ones have become fossilised in our genome; they are slowly decaying
How did Darwin know about that?
What a guy...
Strange how evolution can answer this (well, it is precisely what is expected) yet creationism cannot.
It is a clue of some kind...
Lee
Oh, one last thing.
You will hear some theists say “Well, you are taking the bible too literal, of course evolution is correct – creationists are idiots and so this post misses the point – that’s not my God you are attacking...” etc etc etc.
However, I’ve never heard a reasonable explanation of Christianity and evolution.
The bible story, from page 1, through the fall, through to Jesus and his crucifixion and supposed resurrection – just don’t make sense IF evolution is true.
I would love to hear such an explanation of course – it is not for the want of asking.
It is this reason why I think evolution is attacked so strongly – personally, I think they have bigger problems with the ‘evolution’ of the universe, galaxies, stars and planets... however, since none of this is mentioned in the bible there is little conflict in their eyes it seems.
Lee
Oh, one last thing.
You will hear some theists say “Well, you are taking the bible too literal, of course evolution is correct – creationists are idiots and so this post misses the point – that’s not my God you are attacking...” etc etc etc.
However, I’ve never heard a reasonable explanation of Christianity and evolution.
The bible story, from page 1, through the fall, through to Jesus and his crucifixion and supposed resurrection – just don’t make sense IF evolution is true.
I would love to hear such an explanation of course – it is not for the want of asking.
It is this reason why I think evolution is attacked so strongly – personally, I think they have bigger problems with the ‘evolution’ of the universe, galaxies, stars and planets... however, since none of this is mentioned in the bible there is little conflict in their eyes it seems.
Lee
It's another miracle, I've got Lee in stereo :-)
Strange how evolution can answer this (well, it is precisely what is expected) yet creationism cannot.
That's why creationism is a load of godddidit - the end! goofballery - no predictive powers. They just look at something and go - ah, the hook worm with its teeth that lacerate your intestines - that's just what you expect from a loving designer.
You will hear some theists say “Well, you are taking the bible too literal, of course evolution is correct – creationists are idiots and so this post misses the point – that’s not my God you are attacking...” etc etc etc.
Yet the literalists exist. The "liberals" are of course free to provide evidence of their claim - but like you say, they never do.
Fundies at least realise that Darwinism destroys fall theology and man's "special place". The less consevative ones dont seem to grasp this.
Their theology has absolutely no substance to it at all, and their only defense is to say - "ah, but you dont understand". They just use a subtle ad hominem in the place of evidence.
It's another miracle, I've got Lee in stereo :-)
Oops...
It's when I come in 5.1 surround sound you should get worried
Lee
"However, I’ve never heard a reasonable explanation of Christianity and evolution"
Perhaps Bruce can step in here (!)
Perhaps Bruce can step in here (!)
Yes, let's get on the Brucephone
:-)
"Perhaps Bruce can step in here (!)
Yes, let's get on the Brucephone "
Did anyone answer the phone call?
I recall Bruce's last response was along the lines of "I've not really thought about it" - well, that was several months ago now - lots of time for thinking.
Keep ringing... we might get through soon.
Lee
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