I've grown somewhat weary of the whole god thing and come to the conclusion that the only thing that will make me believe in the Christian god is if he actually appears. I've reached the point where I consider the arguments for his existence rather pathetic and not worth wasting too much time on any more. This is after all supposedly a being that wants to be in relationship with us. A being who is supposedly his own father and son, who sent himself on a nonsensical suicide mission to make this relationship possible. This is a god who supposedly weeps for the "lost" and the best "evidence" for his existence is a book that is full of inconsistencies, laughable inaccuracies, failed prophecies, non prophecies and contradictions. Then there is the "fine tuning" argument, based on incomplete knowledge of the universe. Surely, the best we can ask there is "why are the constants what they are?" Anything else is just an opinion and not open to investigation. So, I see it as a lack of evidence for a designer, not evidence for or against.
The "moral argument" is no better. It can at best provide a consistent idea (but often doesn't when talking to theists) it gives no reason to believe in a supernatural law giver. It is always good to challenge believers on the morality of homosexuality here. They will claim (falsely) that I recognise "god's laws" because I may agree that murder and rape are wrong for example (although, where they get such notions from reading the bible is beyond me). The problem comes when I point out that I don't believe homosexuality is evil - if I recognise god's laws, why do I not have a problem with gays? At this point they usually have to resort to assuming that on this particular issue, my heart is hardened - after all, it can't possibly be the case that they have no case for their belief in absolute moral values - can it?
I have written much against creationism. That is just so wrong that any mention of a god who suddenly "poofed" animals into existence and caused a global flood is not even worth considering as a possibility. Life is too short to spend dismantling the lies every time a creotard pops up spouting the festering shite and lies about evolution from some retarded crackpot fundie site of brain damaged madness.
Anyway, I've gone into much more detail elsewhere about everything, there is nothing more to be said other than thank you to everyone who has read my posts and contributed to discussions and general banter here.
I will continue to be fascinated with nature and evolution unhindered with the burden of dealing with fundigelicals. I may even be prompted to write from time to time on important discoveries. I'll probably even start posting more hillwalking and climbing photos. This is my current project:
Words can't begin to convey how bloody hard it is (it's first ascent took 100 days!).
me fannying about on "pressure".
Cool picture of Steve on Chowbok (Sea boulder at Dumbarton Rock)
Comment moderation is on because I keep getting a lot of Chinese spam at the moment.PS, I'll still be popping by the usual blogs and injecting a healthy dose of reality on a few Christian blogs - sorry to dissapoint :-)
10 comments:
Billy,
Just wanted to say, as someone who knows only too well how "real life" can intrude into proper stuff:
a] thank you for all the posts that were not only very entertaining, buy also very enlightening: and
b] Hooray that they'll continue, as and when; and:
iv] (that's not right, is it?) Hoorah that the fundies will still feel your wrath as deserved....
Mark_W
PS: That climbing stuff still seems far too scarey for me. I still get the shivers recalling the one time I did genuine abseiling....
>>That is just so wrong that any mention of a god who suddenly "poofed" animals into existence
Come on billy, it's the Evil Atheists who think you get gay animals! True Believers know that the Almighty created all creatures heterosexual in six 24 days ;-)
ryan
Hi Billy,
I agree - no good arguments, and even less good evidence.
It is pretty poor if you think about it - which of course the Christian doesn't... they have their 'feelings' or whatever and it is good enough for them
Which is fine with me - so long as they are not asking for my respect, tax breaks of the government, telling children what to think (rather than how to think) and of course, just telling us all how we are suppose to be living our lives by sucking up to Jesus, allah or whatever.
Good luck with those hills - they look crazy
Lee
Billy
Brilliant! I think there comes a point at which it just becomes a head banging exercise (except proper headbanging to proper HM, and doing this: \m/ \m/ is much more fun)
That Dave Macleod climb looks totally mad. Love the grafitti on the rocks - all the wee neds getting high on buckie and draw and then floating up the cliff....
I remember years ago someone telling me about Auchinstarry quarry near Glasgow - popular with climbers, the place was a just a den o' neds (which is ALMOST a palindrome...) Apparently, the objective hazards involved used needles, shopping trolleys being launched off the top and acres of broken Buckie boattles. If you fell, you either died of lacerations or you snuffed it later with HIV/ rabies/ STDs
Dont know if it is still like that - kipping in ther Narnain Boulders hovel sounds palatial compared to it
Keep up the good work!
Cheers!
SG
Hi guys, thanks for the comments.
I definitely think it is time to move on. Religion is a life sucking pursuit and I'm glad that I'm well clear of it. There is too much good stuff out there to concentrate on fundies. Although, I must say that coming across creationists has sharpened my knowledge of what science actually is and given me a fuller understanding of what evolution actually implies. There truly is grandeur in this view of life.
Mark, I remember my first abseil. It was at a place called Neilston Quarry – trusting that rope as you go over the edge is very scary.
Lee, totally agree. The arguments are rubbish and you get to the stage that you realise that they deserve absolutely no respect - they are founded in nothing – or even worse, lies. The battle really isn’t about facts on their side (I was watching a video on RD.net today (the God, Darwin or both one) It emphasised the dishonesty of creationists and the completely absurd wishful thinking of the accomodationists. In some respects I agree that science can not investigate god (if you define it deistically). Theism however is testable – evolution, miracles, prayer etc. These views only survive because people are prepared to jump through hoops to preserve their conclusion. It most certainly is NOT science if you keep making excuses for why prayer can’t be tested, miracles don’t happen every day etc. To do my bit to combat this, I’m going to start looking into doing more teaching.
SG, I’ve not been to Auchinstarry for a while; I was put off a bit by some spurious gradings and a 10 metre fall as a result. I had heard a few stories about little bastards playing with top ropes and chucking stones. I heard a story about a little ned who got caught and was dangled over the edge (some of my friends are going there tomorrow, so I’ll report any incidents ) . Apparently Rosyth quarry is a dangerous place, with neds firing air rifles at climbers.
I was at Dumbarton a few weeks ago and it was ned breeding season – we could hear them in the bushes as we bouldered . They do make it a bit easier descending for us – some of the descent routes are very polished and the broken buckie bottles provide some friction. If you ever get a chance to see Dave MacLeod’s DVD E11, there’s a wee local in a celtic top saying “am no feart o nothing’” I think they included them in the video to avoid molitov cocktails.
Talking of metal, apparently it’s the 25th anniversary of the Apollo closing – never been there, but it seems to have a special place in the hearts of metal heads.
Billy
25 years since the Apollo closed? Man, how time flies. I remember seeing Thin Lizzy (with Gary Moore) there in 1979 - Man, that was soemthing else. What a gig, what a venue. The balcony went up and down something scary, esp during Quo gigs.
In fact Quo chose the Apollo for their Live album especially becasue of the totally mad atmosphere.
It was like a death in the family when the place closed. All us metal heads wore even more black that week...The SECC never quite cut the same atmosphere, although Barrowlands is good.
Right thats it, I need to get to a gig.....
Yeah, I remember folk being pretty down about it closing and all through university, I kept hearing how awesome the place was - even if it was falling apart. Think AC DC did their first live album there.
Last time I was at the Barrowlands, they were still chucking about tumblers of straw coloured liquid. There was also a kid there with a very mumsy looking mum holding a flask of tea at a Motorhead concert - WTF!!!! Thought se might have taken a wrong turning at Alberkerke :-)
They also use the Carling academy for gigs too - saw Saxon there last year - it's not too bad
hi billy, thought i shd at least pay the compliment of a visit to ur blog as you commented on my latest (v short) post!
glad to see such progress has been made :)
and i like the new word 'fundigelicals'!
all i wd say is, strikes me if you want good arguments you need to go to books, god delusion has met several replies from folk like keith ward, i think for you guys to be able to dismiss the opposition so easily and contemptuously someone must be missing a trick somewhere...
as for me, i'll try and keep prayin and lovin', if that doesn't sound too hippyish :)
Hi Bruce,
The problem is that these books are not as good as you think. Lee wasted several lunch times on McGrath's book and found it devoid of meaningful content.
The God Delusion is also not some "holy" atheist book and there are bits about it that I don't care too much for. People are often atheists because they have actually looked at the evidence for the other side and find it extremely lacking. Even the most "sophisticated" apologists have inconsistent arguments that need further add ons. They don't even get off the paper into reality. Ohers create a totally meaningless definition of god.
The trouble is, you can argue against philosophy, but that does not generate you any facts, and I find Keith Ward to be a man who likes a lot of straw and unsupported statements in his arguments.
I have wasted too much time on the question of God's existence. I have been guily of giving the arguments too much credibility when there is no credibility and that is why I am now of the opinion that god has to show up. Every christian apologist just makes excuses for him (and not all excuses agree). If you cant agree amongst yourselves, why should we take you seriously? At least in science, we can test opposing views. Theology allows no such testing (and oly "works" if you accept god exists in the first place) That is why we dismiss the idea. Does that surprise you?
ah well, i'm sorry to hear lee wasted some lunchtimes, i know how much i value mine :)
and i too like a lot of straw - in my scarecrows at least.
ah well, i know what to pray 4 then , that God'll show up - funnily enough, that's a phrase christians use, 'god showed up'...
anyway, keep smiling, i'll be in touch about meeting up
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