Sunday, 10 August 2008

Review Of "Make Me A Christian"

I have just watched the first episode of channel 4’s “Make me a Christian. It features a rather smug looking evangie type called George Hargreaves and a group of people he wants to change/convert. He wants to return Britain to its Christian roots – although he didn’t mention racism or reintroducing slavery – strange that! He starts off with some good news; that church attendances in Yorkshire have halved. In fact, it’s not just in Yorkshire, and I pass or can see about 7 or 8 disused churches on the way to work every morning.

His aim (he claims) is to bring back Christian moral values to Britain. Well, he really means his interpretation of them. The problem is that any moral value that Christians claim to have is not original or unique to Christianity. Confucius came up with the so called golden rule (treat others like yourself) some 500 years before Jesus supposedly lived. The Sumerians came up with the idea that we should forgive and do good to our enemies in the third millennium BCE in the “counsels of wisdom”. Chapter 125 of the Egyptian “Book of the dead” demonstrates the morality of feeding the hungry and the ancient Greeks encouraged same sex unions when the Israelites were busy stoning gays. So, Christianity offers nothing new and you don’t need Christianity to be a moral person – even by some of their standards. I as an atheist, share many modern Christian moral values, but that does not mean that they are absolute or come from their god. However, despite denying the existence of Yahweh, I don’t behave in a way that will lead to the collapse of “moral standards”. I would argue that I am actually less prone to dangerous moral values that many adherents to judo-Christianity demand – like homophobia or hating other denominations just because they disagree on the meaning of one verse. In fact, they can’t even agree on the number of books (Protestants have 66, Roman Catholics have 73).

Hargreaves claims he wants to introduce the subjects to true Christianity – but what is that? He even has an Anglican moderate and an African homophobe to help him – they have doctrinal differences of their own.

The aim seem to be to get people to change their behaviour, but when one member challenged Hargreaves on why the bible should be true, he totally avoided the issue. This is not a surprise. I have never heard a justification of why homosexuality is wrong. In fact, a Lesbian member asked why it was wrong and was told she would be shown why it was wrong through the bible. This is not an argument, the bible says it is an abomination and that practitioners should be killed. That is a dogmatic position that contains an unargued for premise: homosexuality is wrong. This is quite astounding, and I personally know a lesbian who suffered depression beause the fundies told her she was evil. The group member who is a lesbian (well claims to be bisexual but would not have a relationship with a man) is also a practicing witch, and Hargreaves laughed at the fact she had a broomstick that she used to sweep away evil. I suppose the irony was lost on him, he believes the blood of a blasphemous Jew washes away sins.

There was another girl who had some body issue problems. There was absolutely nothing wrong with her. This is something that makes me sad. I have known a lot of really pretty girls who think the same (often with destructive consequences to body, mind and relationships). She was told to focus on beauty within, and I agree with that. She has to deal with her perception of herself, but since when did Christianity have the sole claim to that wisdom? She also spent £375 on a pair of shoes and was chided for that. Again, I don’t think they thought things through, they chose to take the group to York minster; an ostentatious reminder of the church’s wasted wealth and suffering caused by taxation.

One other participant has a problem keeping it in his pants and was told he would have AIDS by the time he was 30 – and why do you need a Christian to tell you of the dangers of STIs?

The issue of abortion was also brought up, and again it was a dogmatic one. It highlighted moral relativism - no arguments were given that it was wrong, but the leaders played on the groups’ emotions by using footage of abortions as a form of aversion “therapy”. This does not justify the Christian position, as the distress that some felt does not mean that there is an absolute moral law at work – in fact, you could turn that around and say that those who remained pro abortion are tapping in to some absolute moral law that says that abortion is good. Both positions though contain any argued for premises and provide no evidence that attitude to abortion is absolute as Hargreaves claims.

I felt that the behaviour patterns demanded (abstinence from sex and alcohol, fidelity, “cleanness”) were quite legalistic and not the kind of Christianity that I am familiar with – again undermining Hargreaves’s claims to “true Christianity”. He claims that Jesus will help people overcome sin – he was proved wrong in the first episode when someone got pissed and spent the night with a girl.

I think it will be interesting to see what happens, but if Hargreaves thinks that Christianity is original and the only answer to changing peoples’ behaviour, he really is on the train to East Ham (one stop short of Barking) although I expect to see him crash through the barrier.
Anyone want to take bets on whether Hargreaves will reciprocate and spend 3 weeks on the piss, having promiscuous sex, getting tatoos and worshiping "false idols"- like us atheists do week in week out?

8 comments:

Lee said...

He wants to return Britain to its Christian roots – although he didn’t mention racism or reintroducing slavery – strange that!

What about burning people? Surely they mentioned that? It was such a great pass time of the Christian in the middle ages

Lee

Lee said...

He starts off with some good news; that church attendances in Yorkshire have halved.

But what about the mosques? Oh sorry, this chap is only talking about the one true religion right, my mistake :) Erm... which one was that then?

His aim (he claims) is to bring back Christian moral values to Britain. Well, he really means his interpretation of them.

And that is the problem isn’t it – it is all about interpretation and not even the Christian can agree.

I still would like to know the difference between killing someone, and murdering someone. The bible isn’t clear... what should I do?

In fact, they can’t even agree on the number of books (Protestants have 66, Roman Catholics have 73).

I didn’t know there was such a difference... what do the Roman Catholics know that the protestants don’t in their extra books I wonder?

He even has an Anglican moderate and an African homophobe to help him – they have doctrinal differences of their own.

But they all believe in Jesus right – so that is OK :)

Thanks for the review Billy... I look forward to it coming to Aus.

Do we know why the atheist is known as a ‘militant atheist’ yet as it says in the promos?

Lee

Billy said...

But what about the mosques?

He did metion that in passing, implying he thought it was a bad thing.

I still would like to know the difference between killing someone, and murdering someone. The bible isn’t clear... what should I do?


Oh, that's an easy one - if god tells you to kill everyone in a city - including your own family, it is not murder - for god has says so. If someone else does it to you, it is murder - and god then says you can put them to death horribly and it is not murder. Basically, it is not murder if it suits your religious agenda.

what do the Roman Catholics know that the protestants don’t in their extra books I wonder?


Generally that evolution is fact.

Do we know why the atheist is known as a ‘militant atheist’ yet as it says in the promos?


He said he would be happy to burn christians - why does that make him militant though? If he burned an atheist or a catholic in the name of god ......

Jonathan said...

You've gone into more detail on it than I have. It's possible that it simply wasn't televised, but I suspect those Bible classes didn't include any actual explaining of why the Bible was correct- the preachers probably just told them that it was and left it at that. No wonder the biker walked out.

Billy said...

Jonathan,

I suspect they never went into that either.

They took a very non representative section of society too as you pointed out in your review.

Lee said...

Basically, it is not murder if it suits your religious agenda.

So murder and killing is not an absolute moral law?

Well... well...

Lee

Bruce said...

Thanks for the review Billy - quite entertaining - and comments all, I'm just joining the discussion for a bit for old times sake :)
I'm in the middle of watching this show (I taped it). It's quite entertaining as well, I don't deny. I'd concur with a point you make Billy that the emphasis so far, from GH at least, seems to be on changing the externals of people's bahaviour, whereas it should be on the grace of God that provides the impetus and power to change. Thus, for example, though the girl with appearance issues was clearly affected by the challenges being put to her, it wasn't necessarily realistic to expect her eg to suddenly stop sleeping with her boyfriend. I would say in seeking to draw someone towards God and Christ you need to introduce truth to them in a way they can handle, at the right pace; and someone's thinking and perceiving has to be changed radically before you can expect their behaviour to change in any lasting and meaningful way. That said, it can happen at different rates and in diff ways for different people.

This is TV so you can't expect an all out intellectual defence of Cnity in it. The msot interesting part of it for me is seeing how these different people respond, what they make of it.

Talk to you later.

Billy said...

Hi Bruce,

You seem to be echoing what I've read from a few christians there. Like I said, I agree with the body issues thing, but I think things other than christianity are the key. It is true that changing your thinking will help you, be it through christianity or something else, but you have to realise the dammage your perception of your self causes first. So christianity helps some, cognitive behavioural therapy helps others. It is not a testament to the truth of christianity.

If you believe there is truth in christianity, then that has to be demonstrated. So far GH has just been dogmatic. Personally I think consenting sex is fine - as is homosexuality - I dont consider it true when they are called sins.

It will be interesting to watch.

BTW is he the idiot behind the Scottish Christian Party?

Did you get much walking done on Arran?